Survival Debate: AR-7 or M6 Survival Rifle

Henry Arms US AR-7 Survival Rifle vs Springfield Armory M-6 Scout

The Survival Debate is back.  If you had to choose between the Henry Arms AR-7 Survival Rifle or the Springfield Armory M6 Scout Survival Rifle, which would you choose and why?  Both are great survival rifles but which one will the fans of SurvivalCache pick?

By the SurvivalCache.com team

Springfield Armory M6 Scout Survival RifleAR-7 vs M-6 Survival Rifle

Pros

Limited moving parts – very little to go wrong with this rifle/shotgun
Steel construction
2 Barrels / 2 Types of ammo – .410 shotgun & .22LR
Ammo storage in butt stock
Trigger works well with gloves
Shotgun….need we say more?

Cons

Spartan Construction – uncomfortable to shoot
Difficult to reload
No semi-automatic fire – must reload each barrel
Packing system not ideal
Pin that joins the lower/upper receiver could be Achilles heel if lost
No longer manufactured – have to buy used

Henry Arms US Survival AR-7 Rifle

Pros

Easy to shoot – good ergonomics (for a Survival Rifle)
8 round clip (2 of them – 16 rounds total)
Semi-automatic fire
Limited moving parts
Rifle disassembles into water resistant butt stock
Blaze orange front site post
Floats

Cons

Disassembled AR-7 and M-6 Scout

.22LR provides limited power
Only shoots one type of ammo
ABS Plastic Construction
No shotgun

 
 
 
 
 

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SurvivalCache Team Vote
Mr. Smashy – M6
Scott – M6
Joel – AR-7
James – AR-7
Mike – AR-7
Captain Bart – M6
Josh – M6
Jimmy – AR-7
Greg – M6

Please join in the debate below

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{ 208 comments… read them below or add one }

tinderwolf December 21, 2011 at 2:10 pm

I would probably choose the M6, because while it is a downside to only have one shot between reolads it is also a plus, less moving parts so less to go wrong. Plus the extra shotgun shot might come in very handy.

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DonERussell November 28, 2013 at 7:15 pm

The AR7 is a piece of junk, made of pot metal with ridiculously poor sight setup. The M6 is not much better, plus has a goofy trigger set up, is a single shot and is ridiculously overpriced. You want a Marlin Pappoose Takedown .22autoloader, preferably with a silencer, a telescoping buttstock, and a 6" long barrel. That short a barrel keeps normal .22lr from having "sonic crack" when fired thru the silencer. Without that short a barrel, you have to buy Aquila 60 gr subsonic .22 ammo, which is loaded into .22 Short cases, is expensive and hard to get. You want something that can be hidden in a backpack,. and preferably hidden under your arm on a string, under a coat, assembled and ready to fire.

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DonERussell November 28, 2013 at 7:18 pm

noise will call in your killers, if it's shtf. You have to experience hunting with a silencer to appreciate how MUCH more efficient it is than with loud guns.. If you miss the critterwith a silenced .22 and subsonic ammo, , it just sits there and lets you try again! If you kill one of the group cleanly, the others just sit there and let you shoot them, too. This is a tremendous boon if you NEED that meat! Other critters, nearby but not yet noticed, are not scared off, either.

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Joshua December 21, 2011 at 3:08 pm

I would go with the M6 becuase it is a 410 and .22 you're not limited to one shell.

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Wayne December 21, 2011 at 3:19 pm

I have both and I'm not sure. They both have their advantages. They are small enough, I would take both.

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DonERussell November 28, 2013 at 7:33 pm

the shotgun is a bad joke for survival. Unless you can "swat" several ducks on the sit, birds just aint worth a shotshell in a survival situation. You can carry a dozen x as many .22lrs as 12 ga shells. an unchoked 410, using a 2.5" shell, won't reliably bring a starling out of a tree at more than 50 ft, I AINT kidding. A 3" 410 won't do so at more than 60 ft, either. If you can't hit a bird with a .22rifle, at 40 yds, sitting in a tree, you need some practice/instruction, dude. __

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DonERussell November 28, 2013 at 7:34 pm

The real answer is a short barreled AR15 in .223, with a Ciener .22lr conversion unit, and 60 gr Nosler Partition softpoints for the 223.Then, with a scope, you have 1/4 mile sniping ability, 150 yd deer taking ability, and with a 20 second parts swap, .22lr (30 rd box mag) The .22 unit is $200 and weighs just 3/4 lb. Such a rifle can hunt small game NOW, take deerNOW, be a varmint rifle NOW, be a match rifle NOW, be a defensive arm NOW, and you'll have no money tied up in some specialized "survival gun". An AR15 can be built from a ModelOneSales parts kit and a stripped "lower receiver" for <$600, and you can always sell it for more than that. I recommend a removable carrying handle model, with a carrying handle scope, and a drop in trigger job. The RRA lower receiver and NM trigger job is a fine choice. You can build an AR lower by means of a 3D plastic printer, or finish machining an 80% lower receiver, so nobody knows that you have one.

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Andrew December 21, 2011 at 7:15 pm

1. The AR-7 feeds its ammunition from a magazine not a clip, right term was used once, sorry its just a pet peeve.

2. I believe the M6 would be best as its ability to take the .410 as well as the. 22lr is great and less moving parts. The AR-7 has a reputation for being unreliable in some guns, not all have this problem but some do, would be fine if you checked for reliability before heading out. Even considering either for self defense is a mistake, they are designed and made for the procurement of food, using a .410slug or buckshot would be the only exception and only as a last resort then.

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Gary December 22, 2011 at 12:02 am

Though it would be good to have 2 magazines full of "deterrent" over one shotgun shell and one 22 round.

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iMerle December 22, 2011 at 8:40 pm

The .410 is at best an anemic shotgun round and costs 2 or 3 times what 12 gauge ammo does.
I've owned both of these guns at one time or another and got rid of both. I settled on another survival weapon; unfortunately also out of production, the Savage model 24C in .22 over 20 Ga. It’s heavier than the M6 or the AR7 but you really need the weight when shooting slugs or buckshot and it breaks down into an 18 &frac12; “ package.

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 7:47 am

IF that Savage had been an option, I'd be there too. If I can ever find one for sale I'll probably own it as soon as possible. Until then, I'm looking at buying an AR-7. That accursed availability factor again. I was once told that on a scale of 1 to 10, availability counts for 7 points (different subject matter but never mind). Oh, well; better the less than perfect tool you have than the absolutely perfect tool that is unavailable. "Unobtainium" will not save your life.

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Randy June 1, 2012 at 7:02 pm

Andrew, more people are killed with 22 cal than any other, .410 rounds are to big in a survival situation. 25 .410 rds to 200 22 LR. The AR 7 will put 16 rds to 1 22 and 1 .410 from the M6. If you choose a M6 I hope you are a good shot, you will not get a second.

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Chris October 8, 2012 at 11:19 am

I have an old AR 7 .22 my dad just gave it to me it’s about 18 year’s old. We’re do I buy parts for it at

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CaptBart November 29, 2012 at 8:31 am

Chris,
sorry for the late reply … I was just reviewing threads and found your question. http://ar-7.com/store/page13.html
is the parts store for http://ar-7.com/store/ a rather complete AR-7 purveyor. I've never shopped there and know nothing about them but a quick search on "AR 7 Parts" will return quite a few hits. I hope this helps.

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George November 29, 2012 at 11:45 am

Check with Henry repeating arms…….Who made your gun? The ones made by Armscor and Charter arms had reliability probs but Henry solved that when they took it over, and gives you a lifetime gaurentee!

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unistat76 December 21, 2011 at 7:21 pm

I have the M6. I took off the trigger guard so the rifle folds to a little slimmer profile, that way I don't have to take it all the way down to stow it. I also did a para-cord wrap for a hand guard. My sling has some bullet loops I use for extra .410 shells. I have a little pouch full of .22 on the sling as well.

I did not find the M6 uncomfortable at all and the ergonomics suit me fine. If you like to shoot lever guns, the M6 will feel familiar to you. I did shoot some 3" shells at the range but with the short barrel it's probably a waste.

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Zak January 17, 2012 at 9:16 am

I have a M6 and I'm in two minds about removing the trigger guard because of safety issues. What are your thoughts on this?

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Mattio41 October 4, 2012 at 6:24 am

@unistat, I would be real interested in seeing a picture of your sling. I am currently having one designed out of paracord. But I amnot against something different. especially if you can carry extra ammunition.

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AaronK December 21, 2011 at 7:32 pm

Rather have my Ruger 10/22 with a folding stock. Folding stock makes it easily packable. 10 round mags are flush with the stock with the option of bumping up to 25 round. Their durability and dependability has been proven countless times over throughout the years.

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Randy December 21, 2011 at 7:41 pm

Hey AaronK…try to pay attention to the debate…..I would rather have an AK-47 with an RPG strapped to my back while driving M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank but they asked for the M6 or the AR-7. I will take the AR-7, 8 continuous shots of .22LR over one shot of .410 any day.

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CaptBart December 22, 2011 at 8:35 am

Randy,
let's not get testy – my choice is a 155mm howitzer, why shoot close when you can shoot far – but as you note, AR-7/M6. I found it a tough choice. I went M6 because I can take birds on the wing with a .410 which is something I'm not good enough to do with the .22LR. It also has a big predator attitude adjustor with slugs. I really like the multiple .22 rounds (there is a line in 'Crossfire Trail'; guy is asked why do you carry that old Spencer(?). Answers 'Because it has 25 rounds and I'm a lousy shot' or words to that effect) so it was a tough choice. Either, to my mind would be better than just a pistol alone. If I could only have one gun/caliber I'd cheat and get a Circuit Judge but if even that was out I'd have a shotgun as an 'ONLY' followed very, very quickly by a .22LR. The M6 gives me exactly that.

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mactex December 23, 2011 at 4:27 am

Well put – the question relates to the AR-7 or M6. Also agree w/ having 8 rounds of 22 over 1 and 1. I have owned 6 AR-7s over the last 20 years and all of them were reliable, accurate and handy – I keep one in each vehicle.

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Scott December 21, 2011 at 8:29 pm

I say the M-6 for these reasons:
Easy to operate Less complications
Two possible ammo finds
22 ammo for quiet small game
.410 for larger game no issues with a slug or shotshell

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Scott December 27, 2011 at 4:24 pm

I almost forgot to mention…there is no plastic on the M-6…in a shtf scenerio running and jumping and the rough handling especially in Michigan winters would definately increase the odds of breakage.

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blue July 19, 2013 at 11:21 am

3 possible ammo loads. you may also be able to use 45 acp. kind of like the judge's defender.

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Jen H. December 21, 2011 at 8:43 pm

I would choose the AR-7. It's still available new and no little pin to lose. I like the 8 round magazine even if it is a small caliber. Also love that everything goes in the water tight butt stock.

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CaptBart December 22, 2011 at 8:38 am

Those are the reasons that made the choice so tough. That AR-7 is a nice package and I've been looking at them. I've not seen an M6 anywhere locally, so availability has got to be a part in the decision.

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Geeorge December 23, 2011 at 12:34 am

Also, Henry has one of the best warranties in the business….they will fix or replace any broken parts for free…unlimited.

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Red Coats February 4, 2012 at 9:26 pm

Jen

I have had this rifle for 25 years, they are very reliable, you can buy mag's that hold 15 rounds whch make it a better defense wepon. The mag's will not fit in the buttstock of the rifle. I have found this AR-7 to be a great survival wepon. I owned the M-6 also and did not like the feel of it. I did like the .410 aspect of the shotgun, but it is not a very refined combo.
Thanks Red Coats

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Gary December 21, 2011 at 11:57 pm

I would pick the AR-7 for two main reasons. Having a clip, even if only 22 cal is a blessing, especially if you HAD TO use it for self defense. It would at least be a good deterrent. Secondly, they make shot shells for 22's, making game birds less of a problem.

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ditchdigger March 2, 2013 at 9:54 pm

To bad they don't chamber these in .22mag, the M-6 in .22Mag, 3in. 20 guage. With shot or sabots, decent sights, serious game getter.

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Josh November 28, 2013 at 3:47 pm

I have used the #12 bird rounds in 22 caliber out of a rifle with a longer barrel and at 15' the chucker just kept flying, but if you can get within 10'-12' the .22 bird shot will take down birds up to chucker size.

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Andrew December 22, 2011 at 6:38 am

Try actually using a .22 shotshell for anything other than snake at arms length and you wouldnt even consider it. Hitting a sitting bird with an accurate. 22 isnt hard under semi ideal field conditions.

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CaptBart December 22, 2011 at 8:44 am

When I was a kid (half a century or so ago) we called the .22 shot shells "Rat Shot" and they were for rodents at close range. While I can hit birds on the ground with a .22, I doubt my ability to reliably take a bird in flight with one. Part of the problem is I've never tried it; with the range of a .22LR shooting into the air isn't exactly considered safe range practice. I can practice with a shotgun so I know I can take birds in flight. I KNOW folks can do it, I've even seen it done on TV with a Bow but I also know I can't and that is the only thing that matters.
To Gary, take a shot shell to the range and shoot at a target at 15 meters with it. It'll give you some idea of what the pattern looks like. Then do the same with a .410 and you'll see the difference. The Rat Shot runs the risk of spreading so thinly that you might miss even if the bird is at the center of the pattern.
I use .45 Colt shot shells in a revolver for a 'walk the dog' gun to protect against feral dogs, rabid skunks, etc. and it does have a much better pattern at 10 to 15 yards than a .22 but it is like a .410 "Short" in load and powder.

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EdfromtheOzarks December 22, 2011 at 9:00 am

Agreed! Those shotshells are almost useless. When you are close enough to kill a critter for sure with one, you're close enough to club it to death anyway.

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 7:56 am

Yeah, well probably but I've see some wharf rats in places where I really wouldn't want to try to club them – they might take the club away from me and use it on ME! A little distance can really be your friend!
But yes, point well made. Except for small rodents (who were too fast to hit with a club) the rat shot is not a great round. I've heard that even the .38 special shot rounds give away a great deal. It's only when you get to the larger calibers (above .40) that they start to be effective but they will not cycle any auto I've ever tried them in. For me, they are revolver only.

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EdfromtheOzarks December 23, 2011 at 9:20 am

Last time I saw a rat that big was in a alley behind a dive bar, while getting sick from too many mixed shots. So, good point on the distance thing. I swear that rat was THE carrier for modern day Bubonic Plague! Sorry…wandered off on my own there. I've had decent luck with .38 spl. shotshells, but always within 8 foot or so.

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 9:26 am

Thanks for the information on the .38 shot shells.
Vung Tau, RVN. The rat was stalking a CAT! I shot at it with my .45 but IF I hit it I only made it mad, we didn't find any traces of it.

BIG Suckers!

Loot toot July 5, 2012 at 7:32 pm

Exactly correct. 22 shotshells are junk

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EdfromtheOzarks December 22, 2011 at 8:57 am

I'll vote AR-7. In my area .22's are used commonly to take all small game, plus turkey and deer(not legally) with head or neck shots. The .410 is to me a lackluster cartridge anyway. I'm assuming that the debate would be both weapons fully loaded, with no pocketfull of shells for either, just what each could hold self-contained. That edge would go to the AR-7. Even though it's not an option in this debate; wouldn't it be nice if Savage would rerelease the Model 24? .22lr over 20ga. with a selector switch on the hammer. I know, it isn't a choice in this debate, just thinking aloud.

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CaptBart December 22, 2011 at 6:53 pm

Yep, .22/20 would be GREAT. Still, remember the M6 has a "magazine" in the stock. You have to manually load, of course but you're not limited to only 2 if you have the M6. Not arguing with your choice – it would be tough to choose for all the reasons listed. But everything the AR-7 can carry and everything the M-6 carries is not as big a difference as it at first appears.

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EdfromtheOzarks December 23, 2011 at 8:26 am

I thought the M6 only held 10 in the buttstock magazine, 6x.22 and 4x.410. Maybe that was the 22 Hornet version. Old age memory loss, who knows. I should have explained better. Availibility was another big issue with my choice, I can order the AR-7 and have one in 5 days. The M6…I've only ever come across one at a gun store, in the late 90's. I think we should start bugging Savage/Stevens to make a synthetic stocked Model 24 with a magazine built into the buttstock! I'd much rather carry one of those in a BOB than either of the others, even with the extra weight. BTW, love these debates! Makes one think.

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CaptBart December 25, 2011 at 3:16 pm

Ed,
I think you are correct. My intended point is that it isn't 16 against 2 as some seem to indicate. It is 16 against 10 rounds. The mix varies but the M6 carries more that 1+1 in it. It isn't a "quick" 8 but then again, it does have the .410.

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700BDL December 25, 2011 at 12:58 pm

i own the savage 22/.410 and the 22/20ga and would take either of these in a BO situation.Both of these will out do a simple .22 in a survival situation.I always bring home far more game than my hunting buddies who use a .22 or a shotgun for small game.plus a slug will bring down a deer and pellets are great for ducks,geese,turkeys on the wing.

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robert December 22, 2011 at 8:57 am

how about the new 45longcolt/.410 survivor from h&r

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CaptBart December 22, 2011 at 7:02 pm

I had not seen that. It is a good looking gun. Single shot only and no shot storage that I could see in the on line site I visited. H&R makes good guns. I have a Handy-Rifle in 45-70 and I'm thinking of getting a second barrel for .308. Still if the goal is a survival weapon that breaks down for easy carry and covers most bases, the 45 Colt/.410 combo might work OK in something like a Circuit Judge or this weapon. They're just not as convenient as an AR-7 or M6.

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Desert Dog December 23, 2011 at 5:59 pm

Another rifle I have been testing for a bit is the rossi matched pair youth model. Although it has 2 separate barrels it seems to be very rugged. The only downside side I have found so far would be the sights on the .22 barrel are a little lacking on quality. The .410 barrel has a standard single bead and the best part is the fact that the butt stock is hollow. It has enough room to carry 10 .410 shells, 50 .22 rounds a pair of ear plugs and a magnesium fire starter. And speaking from experiance on owning a couple of AR7's in the past there is some thing to be said for simplicity when your life may rely on just one item.

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CaptBart December 24, 2011 at 6:36 am

Thanks Dog. Yes, I've seen it. Glad to hear it is rugged. I had a BAD Rossi revolver some time back and was kinda down on them. Recently every thing I've seen from them has been OK so it looks like they fixed whatever the problem was. I like the Judge/Circuit Judge combo. I think I've seen a .410/.22 with the barrels separated by a fairly sizeable gap but it isn't in the Rossi catalog. Is that the one you're refering to?
Glad they did it right; makes it another viable option for the shotgun/.22 set. Now if someone ONLY did a 20 ga/.22. (Rossi does offer it in a change barrel model so it might be an option there)

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Peter December 23, 2011 at 11:19 pm

Who is H & R? What info do you have on this new firearm?

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CaptBart December 24, 2011 at 6:33 am

Harrington and Richardson – http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/ShotgunsAndRifles/… for the rifle in question. Now owned by Marlin. They make some really good rifles. I have their 'Buffalo Classic' in 45-70. You can get different barrels so I can get a .308 for the classic and have a backup for either caliber. Uses the peep sight that I find so useful as well.

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Joe December 24, 2011 at 6:57 am

That's a great looking gun, but for survival I'd go for a smaller caliber. I'd expect to see many more small birds, squirrels, etc, that I could take with a .22 than the occasional deer, etc. that I would hope to get with the 45. Just my take, tho.

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CaptBart December 24, 2011 at 4:57 pm

Joe,
yep but that's where the .410 would come in. Still, I see your point.

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Mark January 20, 2012 at 10:01 pm

Looks like a great gun to have! Paired up with the Taurus Judge and you have a nice long rifle/ handgun combo that takes the same ammo. Can't beat it. Thanks for the heads up!

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ditchdigger March 2, 2013 at 10:00 pm

Lot of noise if your trying to be discrete?

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Enron_Survivor December 22, 2011 at 9:57 am

Thanks SurvivalCache Team for the interesting site!!!!! Always have been a fan of the Cache!!! Keep up the good work and God bless you!!

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smokechecktim December 22, 2011 at 11:06 am

I've fire an AR 7, never fired a M6 so from a testing standpoint I cant really weight in on that part of the debate. I have never found a good use for the 410 round and i always thought the 22 was an underated round. So from a shooters point of view I'd go with the AR 7, semi auto….more rounds ready to go.

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CaptBart December 22, 2011 at 7:05 pm

I grew up with a single shot .410 as MY gun so I guess I'm less critical of its capabilities. I've taken birds in flight, rabbit, snake and a feral cat with one. You're right, it isn't a 12 or a 20 but it is an effective shotgun given the right ammo choice and some practice.

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Joe December 24, 2011 at 6:54 am

I'd agree. I opted for the AR7 since .22 rounds are sufficient for small game, very small and easily carried, and really inexpensive. I love my AR7. Great gun.

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ditchdigger March 2, 2013 at 10:24 pm

The .22 is underrated. I have used it on dozens of 1000lb bovines, 200 to 600lb. hogs, a truckload of coyotes and thousands of ground squirrels, wood rats, over the last 6 decades. The best load from my experence is the old Win superX 40 gr. load, solid or HP. at standard vol. depending on penetration desired

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Erik December 22, 2011 at 11:25 am

I have the M6 scout .22 Hornet/.410 and love it. You can take pretty much any game in Alaska with it and it packs very small. The buttstock storage is nice. I did a paracord handguard wrap and put a nice red dot on it. My buddy painted it tigerstripe camo for me when the blued gun started to rust. That .22 Hornet is super fast and accurate. Would be easy to whack deer or caribou, or swap to the .410 brenneke slugs for moose, or shotshell for ducks/grouse/etc. M6 scout all the way!

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mactex December 23, 2011 at 4:31 am

Only drawback is availability of .22 Hornet in WROL situation, not a lot of it just laying around…

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 8:04 am

Mactex,
True of course. But like any unique round, that means you must have a supply to last through the envisioned TSHTF event. That could mean several thousand rounds or more. Of course, in .22LR that is easy to do. Nobody that I am aware of reloads rim fire rounds so for any rim fire (.17, .22 anything, even for an old Henry in .44 rimfire) you must have in storage all the ammo you are ever going to use. One of the few problems with things like a .22. Of course with the prices, having 5,000 rounds of .22 is doable.

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panhandleprepper December 22, 2011 at 11:51 am

I chose the AR-7, primarily because of availability. Once I decided to get one of these, it was much easier to find a new one at a local gun shop. No shipping, no FFL fees, and I could examine it closely before committing to buy. Plus, I don't have to make an investment in another type of ammo.

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Slapy February 13, 2012 at 5:54 pm

By "I don't have to make an investment in another type of ammo." you mean you don't have the opton. Having options is always better than not having them.

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Justin December 22, 2011 at 12:26 pm

Both are great guns, but I love having that 410 for snakes in my area. Living in Florida, I come across snakes regularly and want a quick dispatch if I need too. Plus, autos tend to break down more. I have always had one of the old model 24 over/unders and would rather have that in 22 over 410 if given the choice.

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swampbizkit December 22, 2011 at 2:42 pm

M6 hands down!! The small pin is not an issue due to the fact that it is easily replaced by a 1/4" bolt and a wingnut. As far as firepower is concerned, the M6 holds 15 rounds of 22 in the stock and is highly accurate with a small 4X scope (capable of 1" at 50 yds). Plus the stock also holds 4 rounds of 410 (an excellent small game choice too by the way). In a survival situation, the smart individual will be as far away from any threats as he can get, food should be the priority of the weapon (although many threats have been dealt with by well aimed 22 fire). My limited experience with the AR 7 is marred by reliability issues and very low tolerances to dirt.

–Just some thoughts by the swampbizkit–

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CaptBart January 13, 2012 at 12:55 pm

Swampbizkit,
I handled an M6 at last weekend's gun show. If the guy who had it for sale had wanted to sell it, I'd own one myself. It was a really nice set up. It was the .22 Hornet, not .22, which I considered a drawback but more importantly, he wanted $700 for it! That is a little stiff for a 'keep in the BOB' piece of kit. I did like the weapon, a lot actually, but I didn't like the price. For that I could get a nice .22 plus a .410 plus ammo and change. I just didn't consider the return on the investment a good enough deal to seal the package.

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TexPrep December 22, 2011 at 4:52 pm

I'm having a hard time figuring out why I would use either rifle. What type of survival event would I use it instead of my AR-15 or even my AR-10? I have my CCW so I carry a pistol every day and I have both of my AR-15 and AR-10's ready to do if I have to get out of dodge. I would either carry them in my truck of if on foot I would carry the AR-10. If at my BOL and needed to shoot small game I would use my 10/22.

Ok so let's pretend All my guns were stolen and I had to buy one of these. I have shot the AR-7 but not the M6, but to me the 410 shot shell have limited usefulness. I would chose the AR-7 just for the fact of being about to shoot multiple shots.

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CaptBart December 22, 2011 at 8:05 pm

The idea is that this would live in your BOB. With or without the CCL (like you, I am never 'Not armed' if it is legal for me to be armed), having a rifle in the BOB gives you a solid hunting weapon at 50 to 100 yards. Some folks like the multiple shots of the AR more, others (like me) appreciate the value of the .410 in both bird shot, buck shot and slug.

It is a close call.

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TexPrep December 23, 2011 at 9:51 am

Thanks CaptBart…..As we all know each of us prepare in our own ways, taking information gained from friends and great websites like this one. I understand that the idea is to keep the survival rifle in the Bob but for me in my situation buying and carrying either of the rifles is just an added expense that, in my case, I would not even need. While it is fun talking about both the guns the fact is, that for me to get in a survival situation where I was lost in the wilderness, I would have to travel in my Truck to get there. In my truck I carry my Bob and my AR-15 if I am traveling for any distance at all. If I was going anywhere near an area where I might get stranded I would have a truck full of survival gear including my AR-15…

Everyone has their own requirements for being prepared. And I am all for buying fun and cool guns, but I would not own either of these guns JUST as a survival rifle…. as a cool gun to have fun with ? Maybe lol but not a purpose built survival rifle when there are way too many better guns that would fit the bill and that I already own. I could take the money and buy more MRE's for my BOB :)

But that's just me, I bet there are tons of guys who could justify buying one of these guns and it would make perfect sense for their situation.

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Geeorge December 23, 2011 at 12:43 am

Tex, we are talking survival, not self defense…besides, if you shoot a squirrel with an AR-15…you would not get much meat….besides, in a survival situation, you can carry many .22 shells…

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TexPrep December 23, 2011 at 9:59 am

Thanks Geeorge, I understand but as I posted in another reply to my post… everyone's situation is different, in my case I would have my AR-15 with me in any place where I might be in a survival situration.

As for shooting squirrel and not getting much meat….. shot placement-shot placement-shot placement :) :) :)

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Geeorge December 23, 2011 at 10:43 am

Of course, Tex, I also carry a hand gun, a revolver in .357 for protection….And I would not buy a special purpose .22 rifle when I have several very good and serviceable .22's in my gun safe….including a Henry .22 lever gun and a Remington model 121 pump. As you said, everyone's situation is different and subject to change on a moments notice…For me, I would much rather have a .22 and lots of ammo instead of one of my larger guns and a little ammo if I ever got into a 'run' through the woods situation, with only what I could carry on my back.

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CaptBart December 29, 2011 at 5:04 pm

Geeorge,
Is your Henry the 'Golden Boy' or blued? How do you like shooting it?

ditchdigger March 2, 2013 at 10:45 pm

When dealing with predators, feeling for weakness, any armed response is better than the alternative. Food, water, shelter, in most of the country is the biggest threat to life.

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Dave H December 22, 2011 at 5:37 pm

Very good article! I like both, although I have never shot the M-6. I did briefly own the Charter Arms AR-7 version that I bought new back in 82'. Mine was a jamm-omatic despite the gunsmith/ dealer tinkering with it repeatedly. I really like the concept of the AR-7 but the execution is somewhat lacking IMHO. I am currently looking for a Savage Mod 24c (.22 mag over .410) I believe that it is the ideal survival gun. I am a big fan of the .22 Mags which are better in the role of hunting/ food gathering than the .22LR.

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hooko September 30, 2012 at 9:29 am

But the .22WMR is not as readily available as the .22lr.

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Geeorge November 29, 2012 at 11:52 am

Henry now owns the AR-7…and the rliabilyt factor has long been solved plus it comes with a lifetime garentee.

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Mac December 22, 2011 at 5:44 pm

Neither! Get a Ruger 10/22 if you want a rifle. For a bug-out back substitute a Sig Mosquito or Ruger Mark III.

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Geeorge December 23, 2011 at 10:49 am

A Ruger 10/22 is somewhat ammo sensitive, as are all semi automatics…..22 shells are notorious for being crappy , especially if old. I would prefer a bolt, lever, or pump gun instead.

That being said, of the two rifles being discussed, I would prefer the Henry AR-7 simply because it is currently being made, and Henry will fix it for free if it ever breaks.

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Michael December 22, 2011 at 8:52 pm

I'd go with the AR-7, survival situations I figure I'd only going after small game that's on the ground and the extra shots would come in handy for feral dogs and such. But, if I was loading a boat for SE Alaska or headed into some other remote area with a lot of close cover the .410 of the M6 might win out.

When I made this choice for myself I went with a Marlin Papoose. I liked that the Papoose was just a standard Marlin 795 with a removable barrel.

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 8:10 am

Michael,
Your mention of "close cover" was spot on. I'm sure most of us thought of our own areas immediately and unconsciously. Nothing wrong with that but it does add a dimension to the equation that was not explicitly mentioned by most of us. The piney woods area of Texas that I am familiar with is short range country. 50 yards is often a long shot. Other places, 200 yards may be extremely close. It does matter.

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Mark December 23, 2011 at 11:06 pm

Mike I agree with you on the Marlin. I think it is the most acurate of the small survival .22s. I feel they have been overlooked a lot and deserve more credit.

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Michael December 26, 2011 at 5:08 pm

When I get tired I tend to start dropping things. When I was looking for an emergency stash gun that was one of the things I was thinking about. I liked that I didn't have to worry about fumbling the receiver like I might on an AR-7, I liked that the Papoose has sling attachments, which means less chance of dropping the thing, and it looked like it could survive being dropped better than the AR-7.

If you're not worried about the gun being light enough to float, you can unscrew the butt plate, pry it off, and use the hollow buttstock for storing a few things. I haven't done this as I have mine in the trunk of my car a lot and didn't want it rattling or showing pry marks incase I got pulled over and a cop wanted to see in my trunk. When you roll around with bear spray, a hand gun (I have a CCW permit) and three days worth off food, para cord, sheath knife… there's already enough stuff in your car to make a cop go hmm…

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autonomous December 22, 2011 at 9:02 pm

Well if I cant use a 10/22 with a folding stock I would choose a marlin Model 70PSS. It's a more accurate take down 22 with both sight on the barrel unlike the ar7. I have no hands on with the m6 but i the .22 .410 combo idea. Last would be an ar7 for poor accuracy and last time I held one it felt like it would break down if exposed to the elements for to long like white plastic patio chairs.

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jshicke December 22, 2011 at 9:10 pm

AR-7.

The M6 and AR-7 are priced about the same, with a Henry being just a few greenbacks more.

The .22LR has longer range than the .410 and a single shot is not good when faced with a pack of dogs, human or feral. I'll take the extra 14 rounds.

One squirrel does not a family meal make. Being able to shoot multiple times, may make the difference when harvesting small game.

The AR-7 breaks down into a very small package weighing about 2.5 pounds. The Springfield M6 weighs about double that.

The original Charter Arms AR-7 had issues with jamming. This has been resolved by Henry arms.

AR-7 has many accessories available including larger magazines, collapsing stocks, and scope mounts <a href="http://(http://ar7.imoutdoorshosting.com/store/)” target=”_blank”>(http://ar7.imoutdoorshosting.com/store/)

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wayne December 23, 2011 at 6:16 am

If you can get a M6 for the same price as a AR-7 I would buy everyone you could. Maybe 10 to 20 years ago that was the case but that no longer applies.

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CaptBart January 13, 2012 at 1:07 pm

Saw one at the gun show last week for $700 and the guy wouldn't negotiate at all. As he said, he didn't really want to sell it. It was nice, the .22 Hornet version, felt good and was surprisingly rugged compared to the photos but not $700 worth.

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 8:23 am

The feral dog pack was the biggest stumbling block for me. I absolutely recognize that limitation on the M6. In my area the recourse would be my handgun or up a tree! When I was a kid, I was up a tree because of some feral hogs that objected to being shot with a .22. The lack of a hand gun (I was 16 and stupid) kept me up the tree because I'd dropped the rifle to get up out of harms way. Pigs got bored after a while, seemed like HOURS, and left but I've never been in the woods without a hand gun again.

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Guest September 27, 2013 at 6:09 pm

Jamming resolved by the Henry? Not from what I hear, at least as far as the AR-7 goes. To make that claim a true statement then you would have to be referring to the .22 Mare's Leg being their answer to the jamming problem…

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Odinson December 22, 2011 at 9:43 pm

Gimme an AK pattern rifle. Far more reliable and has more powerful than a .22

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Odinson December 22, 2011 at 9:44 pm

EDIT: "has more power than a .22"

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ditchdigger March 2, 2013 at 11:00 pm

If I were trying to be discrete, why would I create a mushroom shaped cloud in the forrest when a .22short or an arrow would accomplish the same end?

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Geeorge December 23, 2011 at 12:38 am

The Henry AR 7 is in my opinion, the best way to go…saying that, I personally have a cherry old Remington 121 fieldmaster pump .22cal. It is my choice of a survival weapon…remember, we are talking survival, and not self defense…I can carry a lot of .22 lr cartridges if I need to.

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 8:28 am

Sir,
I am a real fan of lever guns so don't usually think of pumps (how many movies have you seen with the shooting arcade using pump .22's?) but they are as reliable as a lever in most cases and just a tad faster to shoot based on experience.
I like semi-auto .22's. They are fun, flexible and efficient. They are also very reliable but NOT as reliable as a manual! I've had semi-autos jam (.22's, 7.62 X everything, 5.56 (a lot!), all the pistol calibers – everything I've fired more than once or twice). I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY LEVER GUN JAM! In over 5 decades of shooting, I've never had one happen to me or anyone I'm with. I've read about it; I know it's possible but so far, I like my odds.
Hang on to that rifle! It will be great for your kids, grand kids and great grand kids!

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Michael December 23, 2011 at 9:08 pm

I have a pump .22 made by High Standard in the 60's. I wish there were more pump rifles out there. Mine's accurate, quick pointing, and for 45 year old farm gun that's been used and abused, fairly reliable.

Henry makes a pump .22, but last I checked it only came with a heavy octagonal barrel.

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CaptBart December 27, 2011 at 6:01 pm

Yeah, me too. Still, since my big calibers are lever guns, I'm looking for a .22 lever to have the same feel. Pumps are really great, though.

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Richard December 23, 2011 at 12:52 am

Neither..I have a marlin model 60 with a 18 shot tubular magazine..Why down grade??

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MethanP December 23, 2011 at 2:53 am

I have no experience with the M6 except my bare hand barely fit uner the gaurd, sans glove. As for the AR7, 1 Armalite & 3 Carter Arms, Light, handy, unreliable, frequent jams. Factory mags would usually work with 7, aftermarket 5 or 6. Could never get factory. Perhaps the Henry is better. I have no experience with that maker.

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 9:20 am

That reliability issue would be a show stopper. The main (only) reason I don't like the AR platform is one went click when it should have gone bang and it was 'for score'. I don't care how much they've improved in the new versions or the changes made, I will most likely always have that nagging FUD about the gun. Maybe some of the newer models in different calibers but I don't TRUST them. The Old Testament talks about the "deceitful bow", the one that leads to the ruin of its user because it fails him. I've had a few guns that I didn't trust. I got rid of them, usually as ornamental items (shadow box) or destroyed. Only occasionally have I let someone else take it and only if they know what I think about the weapon. If I don't trust a gun, you'll know why before I sell it to you.
I've heard that Henry fixed the problems with the AR. I hope so; it is a good idea if done well. I have considered buying one but if I'm playing 'you bet your life' I don't choose to be in the game with unreliable tools.
Just my not so humble opinion.

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bulletgal December 23, 2011 at 6:04 am

M6 chambered .410 / .22HORNET I can fix this gun with wire and bolts if need be. Its ugly, its rough, and not much fun to shoot, but the "punch" is what you need (compared to an AR 7). We all know the problems that come with cheap semi-automatic weapons.

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CaptBart December 23, 2011 at 9:23 am

I've not shot the uprated .22 loads. Will the .22 Hornet and such shoot .22LR safely? It would add greatly to the available ammo supply but I simply don't know.

Anyone know for sure?

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EdfromtheOzarks December 23, 2011 at 1:00 pm

22 Hornet is centerfire so don't think so.

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CaptBart December 29, 2011 at 5:12 pm

OK, so now I feel dumb. I should have known that! Thanks, Ed. Nope, won't shoot the rimfire.

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Moon December 23, 2011 at 7:51 am

I live in Canada and own the AR-7 and it works very well with the Remmington Game Loads. I would be interested in the M6 but I don't have a snowballs chance of finding one in Canada. I think the AR 7 would be a great survival rifle for urban hunting after SHTF. As for self defence I have other things to take care of that.

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roadracer December 23, 2011 at 9:23 am

It's the AR7 for me. While in the Air Force, the M6 was provided as part of a survival pack for aircrew. It was not a weapon that I felt comfortable with. I own at AR7, always fire a magazine through it when I go to the range. Nice accurate weapon.

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kilogulf59 December 23, 2011 at 10:57 am

If it's reliable, I'd go with the AR-7…the M6 is out for reasons listed below…

Uncomfortable to shoot
Difficult to reload
Packing system not ideal
Pin that joins the lower/upper receiver could be Achilles heel if lost

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Pneuma December 23, 2011 at 11:53 am

If I had to choose, I'd go with the M6. The AR-7 is notorious for feeding issues, though from what I understand Henry's version isn't bad. Honestly if we're bugging out here, I won't take a .22, but an AR-15 instead. It's much more versatile in my opinion. If we're talking at a Bug Out Location or Bugging In/Hunting I'd probably just go with the Ruger 10/22.

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ditchdigger March 2, 2013 at 11:44 pm

Always in ranching, farming. Never liked semi autos, always pump, levers, bolt, working guns, fire on a varmint, leave the empty in the chamber, throw it in the pickup, allways safe, no exception. Handgun in a well designed holster. If you need semi autos, train everyone well. In 1962, in the USMC, walk off the firing line with a closed breach, it was three days in the brigg, an a-s beating for endangering Gov. property "fellow" Marines, and being brain dead.

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G-Dawg December 23, 2011 at 12:26 pm

Okay, without jumping on the "Jim Kirk" bandwagon and changing the rules of the game so I can win… I'd have to go with the M6 for one reason – shotgun and rifle. After all, we're talking procurement of food. Neither is a decent combat weapon, or even a respectable defense weapon. Don't get me wrong, I'm not volunteering to take a bullet from either – but a decision to include either of these has got to be made purely on the "I gotta eat" perspective. That being said, the .22LR is a decent round for small game – when you're shooting well. But I've gone out squirrel hunting when it's cold and, well, my aim isn't always steady after 3-4 hours at 20°F. Having a 410 shotgun as an option can mean the difference between eating meat or sipping soup made from spent .22 casings on those days.

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CaptBart December 27, 2011 at 6:03 pm

Well said, sir. Thank you.

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Jarhead 03 December 23, 2011 at 1:58 pm

AR7, I own one and have taken it on every hiking trip without anyone knowing I had it unless I had to use it.

One trip we ran into a pack of feral dogs (5 dogs) and although I had my 1911 I pulled out the AR7 and dropped three dogs before the other two took off. Couldn’t have done that with the M6 if the other two decided to attack, of course I could have used my pistol but I didn’t, I felt secure enough with the rifle.

Real world experience over armchair. I have several 15 and 20 round mags for them and the fact it floats in its case is a plus.

It works, no need for two shots then have to reload. I have dropped many squirrels, rabbits, snakes, opossums and a couple coyotes with it.

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Scott December 23, 2011 at 9:19 pm

So in your real life experience you had it unassembled? Then identified a pack of wild dogs, got in your bag and then assembled it loaded it and took out 3/5 dogs…I guess if I had the m6 out I coulda shot both barrels then reloaded and got 3/5…do you conceal the ar-7 assembled? I guess I mis-understand the details.

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Scott December 23, 2011 at 9:22 pm

PS..
I also know you use what you got and are good with…I grew up on break barrell shotty so I'm pretty efficient…my grandpa use to say beware the person with only one weapon, they are probably very good with it…

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zen July 30, 2012 at 12:43 pm

Grandpa sounds very wise…

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 12:15 am

Had the same thing happen in the early 70s in butte county Ca. had my dad and I backed up to Feather River in central Ca, full run off, all white water, droped the ringleader, did not look like a dog to me, that's another story in Ca.? They did not give it up, frontal bluffs, flanking, this was in seconds. These whatever they were, were not used to hunting rabbits, put 2 rounds into the second in command, .30 luger, they give it up. Fished out the day, no harm, no foul.

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Rescue7 December 23, 2011 at 3:19 pm

Hey Jarhead… Got an AR-7 too. Agreed, it is my choice as well. Trying to use the M6 as a survival shotgun? It has one .410 shot… For a survival shotgun my choice is a pump .12 gage with 5 in the tube and 1 in the chamber. Works better on 2 legged and 4 legged targets.

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bones December 23, 2011 at 9:47 pm

in a true survial situation i think i would choose the ar-7, why 1st consider the wieght and quantity of .410 ammo vs .22 you can carry a whole lot more .22 ammo and you can use the lead for a fishing weight if needed, and the gun powder to start a fire. 2cnd the ar-7 has a watertight container that could be used to store and transport drinking water. 3rd if i am not mistakuen the ar-7 can be fired without the stock on the rest of the assembly so with a little inginuity it could be rigged on a game trail to get some meat. and finally it can be fired one round at a time if the clips should fail. for these reasons i pick ar-7 for survival ======= but t i like the m-6 scout for fun and clubbing gophers :-)

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Mark December 23, 2011 at 11:37 pm

I guess I have to say when we talk about .22 or .22/.410 survival rifles, I think of a firearm for primarily gathering food. Self defense would be a secondary use with obviously better choices in caliber and model of rifle. If I am gathering food, I am going to have more use of a .22 than anything else. Yes I can should birds with a .410 and with a slug shooting similar to .357 magnum I am going to have a better medium/large game cartridge. But most game opportunities are smaller game in my area. Remember as well, we are talking about survival hunting not sport hunting. I will take a shot on birds with a .22 before they take flight and if it comes to larger game, the .22 has been handling business for a long time. I can carry alot more .22 ammo than anything else, they are quieter, and are very prolific being common cartridges to find almost everywhere . As far as the choices, I would choose the AR7 but would prefer the Marlin or Ruger.

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Wally December 24, 2011 at 4:40 am

I own a AR7, the problem I had with mine is it would jamb so I went with the cci stinger, problem solved, then I tried cci mini mags and they seemed to work ok, I don't like the plastic front site, it moves to easy just bump it a little and your SOL, I might take it to a gunsmith and have a steel one installed and staked, having said all this when every thing is right with the gun it is a good little shooter, I'll keep it, just for servival though.

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Doc December 24, 2011 at 7:49 am

Ar-7

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Bama Bull December 24, 2011 at 8:37 pm

I have a new manufacture AR-7 with 2 8-round magazines in the butt stock. I have it loaded with CCI "Stinger" hyper velocity JHP ammo. With rear adjustable "iron" sights it shoots a tight enough shot group to hit small game at 75 to 100 yards. It's a great compact survival rifle for a BOB or survival kit (car, boat or airplane). The cost for a new one is reasonable at about $225 (average). Due to compact size it is also easy to cache in a five gallon bucket with other items. I'm sold on the AR-7!

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Al_68 December 24, 2011 at 10:15 pm

I'd have to go with the M6, 2 calibers and carry a couple of slug rounds for the .410 for bigger game or self defense in a pinch. Although I would not personally use a 410 for sport hunting larger game, in a survival situation, it could become necessary. The 410 shot shells are ideal for birds, rabbit, squirrel and other small game, which is the most likely game you would find. Personally, I like versatility and as many options as possible.

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T.R. December 25, 2011 at 12:05 pm

Niether

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T.R. March 4, 2012 at 2:42 pm

My reason for saying neither is this , first of all these were designed for military pilots who get shot down to feed themselves , etc. thats all well and good . But we are not in the military , what that means is #1 , unless you fly your own airplane , you wont be taking ANY weapon on a comercial flight with you , period ! so that makes its designed purpose a moot point . #2 if your at home or in your car , you will ( or should ) have much better weapons than these to take with you , Period .
If you just like to collect unusual guns , thats fine , but they are what they are , and there are better .

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700 December 25, 2011 at 2:25 pm

Imho,2 choices are better than one,and I would choose the .22/.410 combo.My other choice in a shtf situation would be my trusty recurve for silent food gathering.If I loose all the arrows i can always make more.

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Estle December 26, 2011 at 12:00 pm

Given this limited choice for survival I'll take the M6. It provides a much wider choice of ammo. Not just 22lr or 410 but all the variations of both. If I need to hunt small game in a urban environment I don't want the sound of a gun shot bringing others looking and the rest of the game running. I would pack some 22short and silent ammo. I have used them to shot rabbit size game and nobody heard a sound, even the other game that would normaly run at the sound of your first shot. What I actually use is a Browning BL22 lever gun with a scope and tall mounts.

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Chris December 26, 2011 at 3:10 pm

I'll take my AR with a 22LR conversion kit…I have it already, supremely reliable and accurate, I can carry a LOT of ammo. It's also useful in a defensive situation. I'm not going to go out and buy another gun that has very limited use, when there are so many other guns I want to buy or already own. I might put an AR-7 in an airplane survival kit, but I don't own a plane yet so not anytime in the next few years

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CaptBart January 13, 2012 at 1:20 pm

Chris,
How long does the conversion take? I have a really uncomfortable feel about the kits. If you are using them in a backup weapon (my Blackhawk has cylinders for either .45 Colt or .45ACP so it backs up either as needed) that is one thing but if you are planning to use it as a primary weapon, you have two guns with a single point of failure. In addition, with the .22 Conversion installed, you no longer have a 5.56 you only have a .22LR. Fine for training, or as a backup to other guns but to say you have both is to misstate the case. If you're hunting with the .22, you need your handgun if you come up against something bigger because that AR is still a .22LR.

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Glen December 26, 2011 at 3:22 pm

Can the M6 shoot a 45 long colt in the 410 barrel like Judge ? If so then that woul give you a 22, 410 and 45 long colt. Maybe you could adapt a 45 acp with part of a moon clip. Don't know just wondering.

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Wayne December 27, 2011 at 8:09 am

No it can not. Some owners have said they have and been lucky. Springfield Arms says "NO". Also the 45 long Colt is not the same diameter as the .410.

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Burke December 27, 2011 at 5:21 pm

I bought a Marlin 39A “Golden Mountie,” which is a takedown model, that I bought in the early ’80′s to take with me in my airplane for survival in case of a crash. It’s very accurate and takes up little space.

Never saw any reason to get anything else.

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CaptBart December 27, 2011 at 5:50 pm

That is a nice looking .22. Marlin is a lot like Ruger for me, never had anything of theirs that I didn't like! Not the poll question of the day, but a really nice looking rifle. How small does it break down?

It looks good – I'm not sure I'd want to pay $650 for one but if I could get a deal ….

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 12:43 am

Own a 39 mounty, has well over 30,000 rounds , replaced the firing pin, wonder that. Irreplaceable ranch rifle.

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Buckaroo Banzai December 28, 2011 at 7:25 am

I have a M6 22 Hornet/410. It packs real nice, the 410 takes down hand thrown clay pigeons and the 22 Hornet is very accurate. I’ve thought about getting the scope mount for it to enable me to take a rabbit or whatever at longer ranges. I’ve always considered this gun to be a hunting type gun, not defensive. I’ve never shot the AR-7 but I like some of its capabilities. It floats (if you need that) and it can be compact. A regret is that when I bought the M6 22 Hornet is that I should have bought 22LR and 22Mag varieties as well.

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Buckaroo Banzai December 28, 2011 at 7:53 am

Just watched the video. Practice saying magazine! M1 Garand's use clips. What rifles and pistols (semi-auto) use other than the M1 Garand, are called magazines. OK enough of that. The M6 pin is not tiny. Granted it is small, however one should be careful with any gun and it's maintenance. I have use my M6 for around 20 years I have not had a problem losing that pin. I have other guns that have pins about that size and some a lot smaller and have never lost them either. Having extra parts is always a good idea. I've never had a problem putting the M6 to my shoulder quickly and taking careful aim and hitting what I've sighted at. Some guns are easier to do that with than others. My 1894 Winchester is great for that. Practice is the answer. Interesting, I watched a show "The Alaska Experiment", and in the show the participants where able to use a break-open 22LR/410. If they used the 22LR the producers didn't show it. What they used extensively was the 410. In survival the 410 was more deadly in getting food.

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T.R. December 28, 2011 at 11:43 pm

What I would actually like to see is a 30.06 / 12 gauge combo

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PTZ December 29, 2011 at 2:53 pm

I went with the Ar-7 since I’ve never been able to find an M6 at an affordable price or meeting the minimum shotgun length. I wasn’t going to buy a $400 tax stamp. I love my Ar-7! My only problem is when you take it completely appart its a little hard to totally reassembled. Easy to loose pins and springs.

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Ohio Emt December 30, 2011 at 12:04 am

I have owned two AR7s in my lifetime. The first one was an older Charter Arms version in camo. It was a very fun gun. Very comfortable and easy to use and shoot. It was my constant outdoor companion and it served me well for about ten years. I had to sell it due to hard times following a divorce, otherwise I would still own it today. I have a newer Henry model now and I love it. I found some older production rammline 25 round magazines that fit it. They are really nice to have when doing serious plinking, (less reloading, more bang bang). I have fired the m6 scout on several occasions. My neighbor / hunting buddy had an old surplus one he got from his father. It was nice, but I found it to be far less accurate than my AR7. Hands down ar7 due to personal usage of both rifles. Thanks for reading this, I am a long time lurker, first time poster

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CaptBart January 7, 2012 at 5:23 pm

More bang bang GOOD – less bang bang BAD – CLICK CLICK very, very BAD!

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tommy June 11, 2012 at 4:57 pm

Hello sir, would you by chance be interested in selling one of the 25 round mags that you mentioned?? If so I would greatly appreciate the chance at one! Best regards.
thomas.christopher56@yahoo.com

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Roarmeister December 31, 2011 at 11:57 am

If one actually existed — how about a 20 ga with either a magazined 22magnum or a .17HMR for a survival rifle?

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 1:03 am

20 ga. sabots with good sights can take any game in north America, more powerful than the .50 Cal. precussion guns in the buffalo fields of the 1830s to the 1860s. Facing a 700lb animal, I would take 5 rnds. 20 ga. with Barnes sabots over any 30 rnds of .223

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LUeland January 2, 2012 at 9:31 am

Marlin Papoose is also a great little survival rifle. very light, two piece, accurate. Cons. 22LR only.

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13th Legion January 2, 2012 at 6:06 pm

It's time for an AR7 type gun that can shoot .45ACP/.45LC/.410. Think Smith & Wesson Governor in a collapsible, floating long rifle, with 8 shots. Now that's a survival rifle.

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desertvet1990 January 4, 2012 at 3:27 pm

I'm gonna throw a Monkey in the Pot and suggest a different weapon. The Keltec PLR 16 pistol or SU16 rifle.
Lightweight,.223 that takes AR magazines. Also can be purchased in .22LR

Priced @ around $425
I have the PLR16 and LOVE IT!!

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desertvet1990 January 4, 2012 at 3:30 pm

But to pick from the 2, the .410/.22

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Al G January 4, 2012 at 3:58 pm

savage made a great little combow gun in center fire rifle an shotgun calibers like 30 30 +20ga

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 1:18 am

With a high quality .22 insert for the .30-30 that could hold 1 in. at 25 yrds. Otherwise your just another big noise in the forrest that someone is going to be looking for.

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bones January 7, 2012 at 2:29 pm

a lot of answers are totaly off point. a lot of discussion about things other than what was asked. the question is in a SURVIVAL situation which would you rather have. if you boil all the answers down discard the "what ifs" and "i would likes" and "they should haves" it seems to me the vote is just about what the staff voted……pretty much even steven. agree?

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CaptBart January 13, 2012 at 1:31 pm

Yep! What I find interesting is what it says about us as shooters and how we were taught the art. For a lot of us dinosaurs the single shot .410 was a first 'real' gun. We are comfortable with it and know its abilities. The folks that didn't grow up that way, perhaps got their first gun as an adult, the multiple chances offered by 8 in the magazine out weighed the flexibility of shotgun or .22LR. Each side has a solid case to make – it's the boxer or brief argument, neither is wrong. I have enjoyed the discussion. After handling an M6 in .22 Hornet at the gun show, I like the gun even better BUT at $700 I wouldn't buy one. That money can better go elsewhere. Still my choice is unchanged and if I ever find a deal, I'll own an M6.

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desertvet1990 January 7, 2012 at 3:16 pm

I added to AND answered "out of the 2, the .410/.22" Not off point to me.

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CaptBart January 7, 2012 at 5:25 pm

I was at a gun show today – actually picked up a CHERRY M6. I was very, very interested but as the guy said, he wasn't really interested in selling it very badly (read not at all). He wanted $700 for it and I'll get a .22LR and a single shot .410 for a LOT less.

Still, I did want that M6.

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Chefbear58 January 8, 2012 at 2:00 am

I am sure that what I am about to mention has been damn-near beat into the dirt so far… but here goes… I would choose the M6- My reasons are 1- the .410 shotgun fires a slug that is equivalent to a .45 projectile (roughly), that would be a HUGE advantage over the AR7 if you come across a bear or other predator 2- With having single rounds to fire, it encourages better marksmanship, whether you relize it or not 3- With the .410, you have many more options for the type of ammo you can carry, therefore you may be able to hunt for things the standard .22 wouldn't be easy to hit, like flying birds 4- the pin isn't that big of a deal… with some imagination and a cood whittlin' knife you can probably rig yourself a new one in a pinch!

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Geeorge November 29, 2012 at 12:03 pm

If you shoot a bear with a .410….You'll be in BIG trouble!

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 1:33 am

Avoid bears, moose, bull elk, mean range cattle, with a .22 or 410, should be on the box.

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 1:25 am

I don't know how big that pin is, but hard wire, drill stem, under the buttplate, no broplem

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SLICK78 January 11, 2012 at 2:38 am

I'll take the ar7. Matter o fact I'm gonna pick one up and stash it in my BOB just in case I don't have time to grab my Saiga 12

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Lt Smoke January 16, 2012 at 10:01 am

I went with the M6 .22lr/.410. It offers a simple no nonsense weapon that with a change of ammo can go from feeding to defense. It is compact and fits stowes well. Besides I got one in a deal for $150.

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CaptBart January 30, 2012 at 6:56 pm

For $150 I'd jump at it as well. Well done, sir. I'll give $175 if you ever really need money or something.

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BOONE January 17, 2012 at 10:08 am

how is this even a debate? the ar7 is GARBAGE!

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Prybar January 17, 2012 at 11:51 am

For a lower price, I suggest a .22 drop in bolt for an AR-15. Take small game and be able to carry a lot more ammo with just one system that you'll already be carrying. The bolt, 25 round magazine and 100 rounds of .22 is still smaller than either AR-7 or M6.

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CaptBart January 30, 2012 at 6:59 pm

Prybar, I have a real issue with the drop ins or any caliber changers for primary weapons. If it is a backup, fine (I have a Blackhawk that is .45ACP/.45 Colt to back up two other guns) because once you put it into configuration it stays but if you've made your AR into a .22LR you no longer have a 5.56, no matter how badly you need it. Once you've converted it back, you no longer have a .22LR. I don't know what the change out time is but I wouldn't want to be converting under pressure to get food or stop a predator. Just my not so humble opinion.

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joe January 21, 2012 at 3:48 am

I own both weapons. the m-6 in a 22 hornet is my pick. it can be used on small game, up to deer & black bear. with no problems. the ar-7 can also be used for big game. just not as effective, in my opinion, and not legally in west virginia.

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CaptBart January 30, 2012 at 7:02 pm

Joe, legal issues are often overlooked – may not be an issue after TEOTWAWKI – but you can get seriously in trouble if it is a slow slide into chaos and you break the law while there are still LEOs around doing their job. Good call, sir.

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james January 25, 2012 at 11:50 pm

I have both guns, but if forced to have only one weapon it would be my bow, can reuse arrows I have taken large and small game with it, and it is quiet no loud report to be heard for miles (saying I'm over here) IMO maintaining solitude is important . In a shtf world

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Ro Gal January 26, 2012 at 6:34 pm

I owned the AR-7, and had a difficult time with FTF problems, even with 3 different types of ammo.

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Casper January 31, 2012 at 2:10 pm

If I had to choose one of these – The M6 hands down.
If I was putting something in my BOB – neither.
There are sooo many better choices on the market today the question itself is misleading. Like saying would you rather have a Ginsu or a 3 blade swiss army knife, I can make an argument for either one and both are better than nothing, but neither measure up.

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Bob February 7, 2012 at 9:05 am

My bag holds a Kel Tec S-2000 in 9mm. Folded it's smaller than the AR-7 and I have 6 17 rd mag to go along with the 10 rd factory mag. It's also chambered for the same round as my Ruger pistol. Between the two guns, I have 194 shots before I have to reload mags. The bag sits right next to my 12 ga…so…all set.

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Bob February 7, 2012 at 9:06 am

204 shots…forgot the 10 rd.

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Chris February 11, 2012 at 1:43 pm

I've got a Charter Arms AR-7. It was VERY prone to Jamming and would not reload propperly until I read an article about the type of Ammo used. I have found that 40 grain pointed nose cartrages solved my jamming problem. As for the sites, I don't seem to have a problem. After a minor a adjustment to the rear site, it is right on and I don't have the problem with the front site that has been mentioned. Granted, I try not to drop my guns….But as for bang for your buck, the AR-7 is a great gun. Fun and easy to shoot and semi auto for the win.

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hillbillywildman February 25, 2012 at 10:50 am

I prefer the Henry AR-7. I have taken down deer with a shot in the head from 22 caliber rifle (might have been against the law, but, food is food) and know it is a formidable weapon. With the 8 round mag, it could be used as close range defense with headshots. I use one trapping so if I drop it, it floats.

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 1:39 am

That was over 7 yrs. ago. just try'in to help out.

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bearclaw361 February 29, 2012 at 2:23 pm

The AR-7 is still available and reasonablely price. You might get lucky to get a M6 these days and you better have 500-600 ready to put down. I owed a AR-7 at one time, great little gun. I have choose to go with Kel Tec Sub 2000 with a 9 mm bullet now.

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antares March 2, 2012 at 7:28 pm

I assume this survival rifle debate is centered around what one would take when space is at a premium, say an aircraft or small vehicle or boat. Absent those criteria, both AR-7 and M-6 are deficent as survival rifles. Although both are good for 'game getting', they are low powered for defense use. Both have had reliability issues in tha past, and both are less sturdy than a more mainstream type shoulder weapon such as the Ruger 10-22, Marlin 880 series, or a NEF Topper. The compactness and light weight of the AR-7 and M-6 are good but only if they will hold up under heavy use.

If faced with bringing a survival long arm in a small boat, aircraft or vehicle, I would choose one of the more mainstream brands and guns. If traveling under my own power or in anything larger than a mid-size sedan, I would choose a full power rifle or 12ga shotgun.
One may not be able to determine the criminal threat level, game availability, and sociological issues of a survival venue, but these and limited space will drive the choices of survival gear including firearms.

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Danm March 3, 2012 at 1:12 am

I've had an AR-7 for 30 years and love it for what it is good for. It is small, light and easy to have with you. I strap it on my pack when I go camping solo and sleep well with it beside me with a 25 rnd clip in it. It is ok for bunnys squirrels and such and has enough fire power to deter most two legged animals. You can carry a lot of ammo and the ammo is cheap. I could, if it was all I had take down a deer with it with several fast shots.

The weight of the ammo is the killer though; that and the firepower. How many critters can you take with a pound of 410 shells compared to a pound of 22lr? I like the 410 for some things. My snake charmer is great for snakes and has done service for a few furballs as well. I would probably carry that AND my AR-7 for boat camping and such.

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Guest November 16, 2013 at 5:52 pm

i had no idea the AR-7 had been around for 30+ years, are you sure you didn't mean 3?

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survivalcyclist March 5, 2012 at 10:52 am

If I _had_ to pick between the two, I'd take the AR-7. Smaller package when stowed, it floats (very important, as I live around a lot of water) and having to carry only one caliber of ammo simplifies my logistical problems. The weapon weighs half as much as the M6, which is a key factor for carrying while hiking or biking, and you can carry a lot of .22LR in the same space as a handful of 410 shells.

In practical terms, a single shot of .410 is not as effective as multiple rounds of .22LR, under any circumstance I'm likely to encounter. I can also silence a .22LR easily…

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NSDQ_SWO June 7, 2012 at 1:22 pm

I've never shot an AR6, but recently purchased an AR7. I was really impressed how easily it went together and I do like the fact that it comes with 2 8 round magazines. I haven't had a single issue (so far) with jamming

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Kydude June 19, 2012 at 8:11 am

I have one for sale. Let me know if you are interested.

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Rod July 16, 2012 at 9:24 am

Personally, I'll take my 1913 "Crackshot"!

Not into the automatics, like the 10/22 which jams almost every 3rd shot!

Automatics waste ammunition in that you can get trigger happy and that's NOT a good thing in survival mode! You MUST make EVERY round count and it's too easy to just fire round after round without thinking, especially if you get angry or frustrated with something (or someone).

The .22 cal, in my book, would be the best round for survival. For food gathering AND protection!

The report is nothing compared to say a 30-06, or 12 gauge. If you want to stay hidden, the report of the .22 won't draw the attention that the much larger calibers will. Yet, in the right hands and with practice, the .22 has an impressive kill range for food and protection (at least for deterrence).

I DO like the AR-7 for it's compactness, accuracy, and waterproof design. Have never heard of the M6 until reading this article, but the "concept" of the 2 different caliber rounds is a nice idea, though as stated in previous comments, the .410 isn't a read effective round.

I have seen .22/12 gauge rifles, though they're not easy to come by. This configuration, in single shot, would be the best combination in my book.

Rod

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 2:06 am

A lot of these folks don't understand being hunted. Nothing I ever hunted emitted noises that could be heard for ten miles. The greatist hunter in the US is the cougar, he will run from a Jack Russel terrier in the daylight, come back and kill a 110lb pitbull or a 700lb. steer at night. He knows his limitations. Just say'in.

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bard August 6, 2013 at 1:02 pm

There are easy access to combination guns in 12 or 20 gauge and a serious rifle caliber such as a 308 or 223 or loads of other calibers if you must, and you can also get 22lr pipes to put into your common dual barrel 12 gauge shotgun. So problem solved really.

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Curt58 July 21, 2012 at 9:40 pm

I’ve owned and carried my M 6 for several decades. Mine is the 22 Hornet / 410 / 45 long colt model. I prefer it over the AR 7 due to the choice of three calibers. One thing I’d like to point out, a 45 cal belt pouch can be tied to the side of the stock to give 16 more 410 shot shells added to the 4 in the stock or 45 long colts. This gives me the ability to carry bird shot, slugs and flairs with me. And if i can’t hit my target with more than one shot I should just stay home. It does take some practice to hit small animals with one shot, but practice makes perfect. I learned to shoot with a bolt action 22 so it makes perfect sense to me.

I did remove my trigger guard, because I never carry it loaded and cocked. I did wrap Para cord around my barrel for emergencies and some padding as a fore stock. Even my sling is made from Para Cord. I carry mine in two pieces wrapped up in a folded up pant leg I cut off of a pair of BDU pants that have a pocket on the side.for extra survival gear storage. The pants leg works well if I want to put it in my backpack. Or I use a Molle Rifle scabbard on my motorcycles, off road trucks or horse back.. Made many back woods trips by 4 X 4, on foot and by motorcycles and it’s always nice to know I have the ability to signal for help or put food on the table.
My friend and I got lost in the Mountains at 16 and if it were not for my old Mossburg 22, we would have starved those 10 days we were trying to find our way back to civilization. With the M6 I’m even better prepared!

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Matt July 27, 2012 at 9:30 pm

M6 all day long. It is such a simple choice, a no-brainer if you will. Ok so the AR-7 floats, big deal. The M6 can hold much more survival gear by doing things like wrapping paracord on the barrel, attaching a sling with small pockets &/or attachments, small fixed blade knife in plastic sheath attached to the stock or sling. The point is that it's all small survival gear that can't fit in the AR-7 setup. An M6 with a small 2 pouched case could hold all a survivalist could need for an Emergency situation and it all attaches to the M6. Like I said, M6 ALL DAY LONG!

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Peter July 29, 2012 at 12:20 pm

Why do many people seem to think that the Henry survival rifle holds two magazines? I also keep a magazine in the receiver as well. So it actually stores three 8 round clips.

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sidd August 4, 2012 at 8:15 pm

ruger 10/22. 5000 rds.

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Brandon September 6, 2012 at 9:22 pm

M6 Scout All the way; Lets face it, survival is not only about comfort but also personal protection and stopping power..

Side note: The semi-auto would be too tempting to waste ammo, it's more complex and does not adhere to the "one is none and two is one" principle.

The .410 shell is leaps and bounds above the .22 in a real survival situation because of the same reason cops like 12ga vs. .40S&W. I mean, you would feel a lot better confronting a black bear with a .410 than a .22; I think this was brushed off, like as if the Henry was so comfortable to shoot that they didn't need to think about the .410 stopping power; But thats just me, I mean there are predators out there too, not just ungulates. I don't know about you, but whenever I get lost in the woods, it's usually in bear country. Plus with the M6, you still have the .22 option.

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Geeorge November 29, 2012 at 12:09 pm

Shoot a bear with a .410 and you will only piss him off!

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 2:54 am

I was runing black bears off garbage pits in the 50s, as a kid. Only seen a couple show aggression, snapping jaws, blowing, huffing. A round in the ground, like mean range cattle, always changed their mind. That is not always the case. In Kern County, Ca. we have had both bears and Cougar attack humans, with horrible outcomes, all lived only because of brave companions and reliable dogs. Personally I have carried an early ruger .44 flat top, bought in my senior year in HS, traded for wages earned, than in 71, a model 29, .44. 4". Snake shot in a .44 or .45 colt is a good quail, dove getter up to 15 yrds, trout in stringers. Not exactly legal, never took more than I could eat and it was well over 7 yrs ago.

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cyberbullet September 6, 2012 at 10:21 pm

Im no expert on guns or survival however based on my personal experiences and my own research this isnt really a hard decision. The M6 is a very versatile weapon and being able to use it in the field is a lot of fun. However as a survial rifle this would be far from my 1st choice. Because of the trigger on this gun shooting accurately beyond 35 yards would be a challenge. The weight and bulk of carrying 4-10 shells is not something you want to be doing in a survival situation. This is really only suited for 1-2 day trips.
Now for the AR-7 Semi automatic the trigger works like any other semi auto .22. You can carry this as easy if not easier than the M6. You could if needed carry 500 rounds in a cargo pocket for extended stays in the wild. Also as its a semi auto you could if needed take out larger game with several "fast" well placed shots. Something that would be virtually impossible with the M6.

So the AR-7 is hands down my choice for a survival/pack gun.

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Lone wolf September 12, 2012 at 7:37 pm

I couldn’t decide so I bought both one for land travel and one for water travel

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Lone wolf September 12, 2012 at 7:39 pm

I couldn’t decide so I bought both but having tested both I would have to say m-6 more caliber options

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CaptBart November 29, 2012 at 9:09 am

That is always unsettling. Have you found any ammo that it likes? A failure to fire leads to FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) when you have to have absolute confidence in your weapon. If I couldn't find something it consistently shoots, I'd get rid of it but be sure you let the new buyer know of any issues – that is the honest thing to do, even if it knocks down the price of the gun.

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Dave N. December 30, 2012 at 9:22 pm

I'd have to give the nod to the Henry AR-7.
The Savage is bulky and heavy compared to the other two and caries no ammunition. The M6 is barely an inch thick when folded, lighter, and is very compact, especially if you remove the trigger guard like the original M6 design. The M6 carries some ammunition right in its stock.
But the Savage and the M6 are both single shot. It is nearly impossible to load or reload single, tiny .22 cartridges while fumbling with gloved or wet, trembling cold or injured fingers while watching your lunch run away. You aren't realistically going to hit a fast or high flying bird with short-barreled, thin-patterned .410's. The .410 might seem formidable with 3 inch, 5 pellet OO buck. Solid Brenneke slugs will stay inside 8 inches at 25 yards (but tumble), and have the same power as a .40 S&W handgun. But you only have one shot, and a slow reload.
You can rapibly load, fire and reload the AR-7 as much as you need. What won't be stopped with one .22 bullet will be stopped or scared off with a magazine full.
The Henry is also the lightest of them all, if slightly more delicate.

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ditchdigger March 3, 2013 at 3:21 am

It floats, if things go really bad, if you are still alive, don't freeze, it's plan B. In the north country, a .375 would be nice, but not on the bottom of a lake. A .22 slug can be pulled with the teeth, a spark and fire. The empty casings can be formed into fishing tackle. Any thing in north America can and has been killed with the .22 long rifle, not on their ground or you will lose.

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bard August 6, 2013 at 12:55 pm

I would go M6 just because it has a shotgun option, it is far more birds and other small animals than other prey available and they are often impossible to see until they fly up or run away. Shotgun is a blessing on moving targets, and will at least give me more to eat where I am. Now there is far better combination guns around, you can easily get 12 gauge with 223, 308, 30-06 or other calibers, and even drilling with 2 shotgun barrels and a rifle barrel easily available. This is not the option here, but I would obviously go for something like that over these guns.

I would not go for the 22lr semi auto as it lacks the ability to shot fast moving targets, and in the event of HAVING to use your gun for self protection against humans a hit by a 410 slug packs far more in stopping power than several hits with a 22lr. None of these guns are "self protection guns" anyway, but survival guns to help put proteins on the plate.

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Nick September 26, 2013 at 6:04 am

In a survival gun to me the most important aspect is quick follow up shots. To anyone who's hunted birds with a single shot, you all know that if you don't make that one shot count, you miss, and if trying to survive, you go hungry. Ok so with an AR 7 you won't be taking wing shots, but at least if your first round misses, you have a chance to quickly drop the game with the second or even third shot. A big plus IMO. So even though an M6 allows wing shots with the .410 barrel, the fact that its a single shot system, negates any effectiveness having that shotgun barrel might enable. So, in that respect I will lean toward the AR7.

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Guest September 27, 2013 at 6:01 pm

I'm gonna say it again, cause here's another appropriate place to do so; if it's a cheap .22 pack gun you're after then consider Henry's Mares Leg. HOLD ON – before you skip over this, let me sell you on the utility of this thing:

* Henry Reliability
* Accurate, Compact, Sturdy
* Concealable (with some effort)
* Feeds .22 Short, .22 Long, .22 Long Rifle
* Very, very nice lever action, right out of the box

Many are turned away by the lack of a full stock thinking that it will be impossible to attain a sight picture, but it simply requires an alternate method of aiming where-in you allow the SBR to tip forwards and catch the end of the grip with your cheek just where would rest it otherwise. It takes about 5 shots to master this technique and then you'll be all like, "…oh, alrighty then" though I wouldn't recommend that approach with any of the higher calibers :-/

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Guest October 4, 2013 at 2:03 pm
Guest October 4, 2013 at 1:57 pm

Chiappa Firearms just introduced these two options for your consideration, as well. Sorry, no MSRP but I'd stay optimistic, probably.

The Little Badger (or "Clotheshanger" as some have termed it) is, literally, a bare bones, single shot, break barrel .22, folding stock carbine * phew! http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2599 with a couple of picatinny rails throw-on for those who have always wanted a piece that's more attachments than firearm, I guess. Supposedly a great little shooter and the perfect niche for someone who realizes the need but wants to spend as little effort on their Bug-Out Gun as possible, presumably…

Then, for those like me who require something a little sturdier or simply prefer the classic look, they also released the Double Badger. http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2626 this one is another break barrel .22, but with a wooden frame, improved sights and, more importantly, a secondary .410 barrel in the O/U pattern. you could definitely do worse, I'd wager…

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The fountain of youth October 25, 2013 at 2:49 am

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wally October 26, 2013 at 7:44 pm

i would go with the AR-7 myself….

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Redwolf November 12, 2013 at 12:17 am

Well, having owned 2 Ar-7, I can say that there is nothing quite like having your sights randomly fall out somewhere along the trail to ruin a survival rifle. My vote is for the M6, or a Savage 42. They even make reel buckshot for a .410 these days.

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steve malarchik December 9, 2013 at 2:55 pm

The AR7 all the way! Its light weight, it stows in the butt of the rifle, and it is a semi-auto. Self defence and in Survival mode the AR7 is the best! I own one.

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Dr. Moses J Moose April 21, 2014 at 8:05 pm

I have another suggestion. What about some of the rifles made by keltec? Many of them break down into much smaller bundles, like the m6 and the ar 7. Also, they have ones with the option of 22lr, 9mm pistol, .223 Remington, and .308. Having looked into these extensively for backpacking trips, I feel these are also viable options

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Geeorge December 29, 2011 at 7:26 pm

Capt Bart….It is the blued one….I like it a lot…it is light, accurate, and extremely reliable….If it fails to shoot, it can always be traced to bad ammo…..I still have some .22 lr's that are about 29 years old.GeorgeFrom: notifications@intensedebatemail.comTo: az_geo@hotmail.comSubject: CaptBart replied to your comment on Survival Debate: AR-7 or M6 Survival Rifle

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CaptBart November 29, 2012 at 8:48 am

Thanks for the reply, sir.
I've been thinking of getting a lever gun in .22LR. I really like lever guns and these look nice. My .22's are all semi-auto and that is not necessarily a good thing. I'll keep an eye on the Henry website. If I still have a job next year, maybe one will show up at the house.

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