Over the years I have tried many things out in the field and one thing I found that works really well for those of you that don’t like a heavy pack is WEB gear, sometimes known as LBE (Load Bearing Equipment).
In this guest article my friend Chuck shows us how WEB Gear can be a great alternative to backpacks if you need less weight and more maneuverability than a Bug Out Bag
Harness
I prefer the H-Harness to any other kind. They also have a Y-Harness, but I prefer the weight distribution of the H. With either of these you have the ability to put a compass pouch on one shoulder and a knife one the other. I know it sounds like a bad movie but having those on your harness is a good thing.
I found that a Cold Steel SRK (Survival Rescue Knife) works well for the knife because of the sheath. Also, on the either harness is a spot for a sleeping bag once it is in the synch strap. I like that feature because is hangs down your back out of the way.
Belt
To outfit my web belt I like to use M-16 magazine pouches, but I take out the magazine dividers first. Here is a list of everything I’m able to carry in the pouches and around the belt of the harness:
Pouches
- Bandanna folded and put on the bottom
- Back up compass
- Small fine hone stone
- Pocket knife (Spyderco Manix 2)
- Granola bars
- Water proof pill bottle with matches
- Pill bottle with a fishing kit
- Zippo
-
10ft of Paracord - Mini mag light
On Belt
- 2 Military Canteens with cup and iodine tablets
- Parry Blade Survival Knife
Butt Pack
- Two pair of socks and underwear wrapped up in a water resistant bag and compressed
- MREs (without the cardboard boxes) enough for three days
- Small roll of toilet paper around a dowel rod
- Folding Saw
-
A small first aid kit: - 20 alcohol prep pads
- 75 Band-Aids of various sizes
- 4 ace bandages
- Needles and thread
- Eye drops
- Saline solution
- Tweezers
- Scalpel with disposable blades
- Another mini flash light
- Chest wound compress
- Three slings
On the bottom of the butt pack is my poncho which can be used as a shelter, rain gear, water gatherer, or a ground mat. Almost all I carry can be used for multiple purposes.
Ammunition
9mm Ammuntion I carry in a low riding tactical sling on my right side with spare mags. I try to make sure I have at least 120 rds for my pistol.
I am always open to suggestions on how to improve my set up but this is a good list to start from.
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I don't know why every list includes matches; also, I have a Zippo, and considering the amount of fuel it eats up, would not rely on it in a survival situation. In this type of setup, I would include two simple bic lighters.
you are right in that I forgot to mention them I had taken them out with plan to buy new ones then i started writing this out so thanks it was an oversite I just put the new ones in my gear one in my butt pack and the other in one of the m-16 pouches. thanks for reminding me.
If you go with a standard Zippo insert, yeah, it needs to be refueled about once a week. If you use a butane insert (about ten bucks), keep it filled and you're ready to go.
one of the great things i have found is the survival butane lighter it is a great mini torch and it works good for soldering it is also great for lighting your cigars or cigerettes one of my bad habbits but not the only reason i carry so many lighters.
If using a butt pack, "H-harness" rides much better than a "Y-harness"
Nothing screams prepper/militia more than showing up with a full LBE, so you may want to consider that if you are trying to keep a low profile.
Military canteens are OK, but you may want to expand your horizons a bit – these guys are great (they also have cool canteen-cup cooking gear and other "nice-to-haves") http://www.canteenshop.com/id31.html
I like your mag holders – you may want to consider a "dump pouch" too – lots of room in there.
I also noticed no backup backup firestarter – like a ferro rod, striker, or fire piston or anything. I guess you could always make a friction fire – lots of work though.
Great post – most people think you can only use a backpack!
thanks for the tips i checked out some of the stuff on that site it looks great so i added it to my favorites lol. it feels good to have people actually read somthing Lucas and i put together thaks again guys and gals and remember to keep your powder dry.
Chuck
LBE is fine old or new. They're great and I would use them. you can put other Items on it other than the military pouches etc. I and had to wear them in the Army and they aren't always comfortable. but what I would want to use is a vest . Air crew type or you can make your own out of a Photographers, fishing or hunting vest.,
I agree with Dustin. about if you want keep a low profile then I would use the photo, fishing, or hunting vest.. I'd pack it with only what I think I would really need. You can wear it all the time and sleep with it on if need be. it's hard to sleep with LBE on you can but it's a pain.
You can still use the LBE or backpacks over it. if you want,. but is seconds count and you can take the vest eveywhere and have it on most of the time if you choose. no one will notice it especialy if you use a photo-vest and have a camera around your neck. For the low profile types, otherwise use everthing you can.
good point about the photo vest I had not thought of that before where i live in the country and most of the people around me are of like mind. I was just making a point to get some of this stuff out there for the ones that wanted a place to start cause making one of these can come in handy when you can not make a whole BOB with out breaking the bank.
I agree
I went out and bought an assault vest from an army surplus store. It has space for extra mags (pistol and rifle) and pouches for maps and grenades if need be. In a SHTF secnario, I'm not too worried about being inconspicious, more about protection. If I want to keep a low profile, I'll avoid contact with other people and head for the woods. I'd rather be packin, than have a low profile and be un-prepared. I'd like to try and use web gear with the vest to carry more ammo, but I'm not sure if the vest will fit with the harness. I've also looked into shoulder bags to carry any other extra ammo if need be.
one of the things I have found that works well with the assult vests is a mole low riding plat form it is a great way to carry more ammo and not have the bulk of a vest and LBE rig.
this is what i found for a good rig:
http://www.opsgear.com/index/page/product/product…
Right now I prefer a small chest rig if I'm running low profile. I've worn this rig under my jacket and it works just as well: http://flic.kr/p/6ZgCua
That would be in conjunction with a backpack, but I plan on moving through urban areas using vehicles and buildings; a large ALICE rig would not suit my needs.
The beauty of the MOLLE panel is how configurable it is. Here is the same panel in a E&E load out: http://flic.kr/p/6XyX1c I've driven around in my vehicle with that under my softshell with no issues.
With all these configurations my pistol is on my belt with reloads on my weak side, like I always train. All survival preps are stored in a MOLLE "3 Day" pack, which can also be configured with pouches to suit the situation. I use the same pack for hunting so I'm used how it carries.
To me, mission drives gear; am I bugging in, bugging out, doing security, recon? One setup will not fit all these jobs.
oh I agree that not all situations will allow you to carry this set up but it is a good place to start for those without a lot of money to spend up front I mean all these peices you can buy seperatly and it has been said before somthing right now is better than nothing when its needed my whole rig cost me arond 30 dollars cause I used older stuff that was a bit cheaper but still good. it is just one of those things that is a aternative to going all out on the first try.
I like the military setup of an LBE loaded with essentials, worn underneath the ALICE sustainment pack.
josh that is what i was saying to Lucas on his bug out bag its a great set up and well i am hard pressed to find any other system that works as well together as those an LBE and ALICE pack you should be able to carry every thing including the kitchen sink lol
Great article, thanks for the tips.
i am just trying to get my knowledge and experience put to good use i hope things i have written will be handy for some and its great fun doing the feild work.
I am definitely on the lookout for a cheap surplus LBe system next time I go to the mil-surp store.
As much as I would love an expensive blackhawk or 5.11 or other tactical chest rig I can't afford that right now.
try looking on cheaper than dirt web site they have good stuff and you can also find good stuff in yard sales keep an eye out for just pouches and stuff like that.
I have a good recommendation for a buttpack if anyone is interested…..not sure if the deal is still going on at CheaperThanDirt.com but they do have a very nice buttpack made by Blackwater Gear, I have one myself mounted on my Pistol Belt and it works very well, very nice construction and seems to be very sturdy. For 9.95 you can't beat it! Hopefully they still have the deal
Parabellum,
Cool thanks for the heads up. Blackwater makes pretty good gear.
another thing that I found in cheaper than dirt and other magazines is a complete swiss set up its older canvas with a pack built right into the H harness so you have it all i think it goes for a bout 20 bucks plus shipping I was going to get one till i bought a box lot at a yard sale for 10 bucks that had a full set plus other gear in it as well. one of the other things i forgot to metion was the day hicker pack that goes with the camelbak hydration system i have one so does the wife they are great for small climbing trips and they give you a ton of water for a day.
now i'm starting to make my first bug out bag and im all for maneuverability, but im not sure if i should get a LBE for that reason or a backpack for some more storage space. which one should i get?
P personally would go with both get the LBE and add to the back of your web belt the butt pack it should have the gromits on the top to allow you to attach your harness. but if you want a new thing i am doing i get a medic bag to show first timers that you do not need all the stuff but its nice to have it and a medic bag fits nice in the space around your spare tire so its out of the way when carried in your car.
I would add non lubricated condoms. Not for the obvious reason but for water carrying. They can hold a good deal of water.
not a bad idea i forgot to add those its a good thing to have if you have to cross rivers with a rifle as well
A ccw vest, vest with hidden pockets, or something along those lines is a better bet. Especially in an urban/suburban enviroment. Having lived through Katrina I have a new view of survivalism and the fluidity of multi-threat enviroments. Dont count on police to help OR to leave you alone. Count on criminals to come to work those days. Count on "normal" folks to act like criminals.
Be invisible. Dont look affluent, excessively geared-up, or overly tactical. You dont want attention from anyone. Try to avoid carrying a bag of any kind as much as you can. If you choose not to or cannot avoid it, go with a very basic pack. Be prepared to fight for it. Scale down your kit to make this a more realistic alternative.
Dont get me wrong , I believe in good gear but Ive learned to live with less. I carry CCW (2 pistols), neck knife, wallet, bandanna, cell, lighter, and a surefire un-obtrusively on a daily basis. It took lots of trial and error to get squared away. Everything else has been refined and pared down to the point that everything I need to sustain life fits in a small CamelBak daypack.
I have an LBE built out to work in conjunction with my BOB. The LBE carries a very basic survival kit and first aid kit in the but pack, a sheath knife, magazines for my rifle and pistol, and a pistol holster. The idea is all of my visible firearm equipment is on the LBE. In a scenario where I'm heading for the hills, the LBE and my rifle can be carried openly. If it's a more urban scenario where I need to blend in, the LBE and rifle can be stashed and my pistol moved into a CCW holster. Also, once I get where I'm going, the BOB can be left with other in camp and the LBE alone can be worn for hunting and scavenging missions.
Im with Brew. A point I didnt illustrate in my earlier comment. I advise against carrying too much crap during daily business for the sake of a little anonymity. This is all to be able to get to where I need to go. My house. Where my fiance, dog, longarms, and BOB live. I highly recommend the Eberlestock line. I bought the Gearslinger II. Great bag and I can fit my whole life in there (that includes ammo, back-up guns, and dog stuff that my dog cant carry), but for the more gear obsessed prepper I recommend getting something a bit bigger like the Halftrack.
Heys guys! Im a registered user here now. Ive previously posted comments as RudeBoy.
welcome to Survival Cache we are glade you joined us in sharing all the gear and info you and others have to share.
Would somebody tell me what F%@k is going on…Pleeease. We haven't received a Lucas post for over a month. Is Lucas or Zack sick? Is the site closed down? Has the SHTF and I need to come out of my shelter to take a look see? WHAT????
Peter
None of this is considered WEB gear. It's all part of the PALS system, which is a much different system than WEB. PALS will receive MOLLE systems, not WEB. WEB is what the German infantry uses currently and ALICE gear. Needs to be researched more.
I'm with those who tailor their equipment to their specific bugout plan. If you live somewhere that LBE, long guns, and other military-style gear won't cause alarm, great. If, like me, you live somewhere that the sight of "Man with Gun!" sends people into a panic, then less is more. The most imprtant thing is to be the "Gray man". That said, gear that can't be carried openly should still be within reach. I'm a big fan of the 5.11 and EOtac vests and pants. I carry everything from my duty belt (I'm a full time patrol officer) in the vest, with a handgun or 2 on my body, concealed by the vest. Extras or heavy items go in the Maxpedition Versipack.
Colors are all earthtones, I can disappear as easily as in Wal-mart or into the woods behind my house. If the situation at hand degenerates to a point that web gear and long guns are the more appropriate choice, great to have it, but the reality is that in most emergencies, you will not be walking around dressed like a combat troop, without drawing way more attention than you want. layer gear and packs for different levels of societal collapse, so that if a storm kills utilities for a few days and the police and government are still functional, you have what you need and are still discreet. if teh cloud goes up and you have to go Red Dawn, you have another layer at hand to go with the basics in your daily discreet gear.
Derek i agree that the situation dictates what you should carry but for the guys like myself that live out in the boondocks its not uncomon to see us walking around in our LBEs even if we are just going out to hike around and take a look see at the terrain.
and I have another article coming out soon about the hydration packs as a good basic start to a BOB.
I carried my hunting gear for years in a tactical butt pack with suspenders. It worked well, but last year, I went to the Kelty Elk Horn fanny pack with suspenders, and I really like it! The pockets are set up well for hauling just the right amount of stuff.
I steer away from military-looking gear whenever possible – don't want to look like I belong to some sort of militia!
I carried my hunting gear for years in a tactical butt pack with suspenders. It worked well, but last year, I went to the Kelty Elk Horn fanny pack with suspenders, and I really like it! The pockets are set up well for hauling just the right amount of stuff.
I steer away from military-looking gear whenever possible – don't want to look like I belong to some sort of militia!
Chilean Air Force Tac./Survival vest! Cheap (I think around $40), lightweight, subdued colors (mine is black and dark brown), holds TONS of gear and at least around here doesn't look to out of place. I have also figured out a rig for the US Army Modular sleep system to fit comfortably on my back. It's similar to the LBE-H and I can fit MOLLE packs to it. Also works with my Camelback.
Wow, I've never seen the ones with the harness. That would be a lot easier on my back. With the versipack I have now, it has to be worn on one side and by the end of the day, my back is strained.
You should try and use a regular shoulder strapped pack with the waist belt for lumbar support. It takes alot of the strain off of your lower back. You could wear the H harness and then strap on your daypack or 3 day pack for extra gear you would need.
I like your thinking. I too carry a rather old worn out canvas daypack daily in my commuter vehicle with the basics as described above by so many. I also have a shoulder carry insulated "lunchbox" that contains water, powerbars, and of course lunch, along with a baby Glock and spare mags. The object here is to make it home if I'm caught at work when the unforseen happens.
I like your thinking. I too carry a rather old worn out canvas daypack daily in my commuter vehicle with the basics as described above by so many. I also have a shoulder carry insulated "lunchbox" that contains water, powerbars, and of course lunch, along with a baby Glock and spare mags. The object here is to make it home if I'm caught at work when the unforseen happens.
I have recently recycled my old alice LBE to a friend and moved to the new molle vest system in a more subdued basic tan. Keeping the load out flexable and to a minimum this can be worn under a jacket, under a backpack, or alone loaded for whatever the adventure brings. The mesh is light and hot weather tolerant too. With the almost infinite types og bags, pouches and accessories you can go from photography to urban survival to full battle dress in an instant.
I have used everthing from custom made chest rigs to an h-harness. I keep a Rodesian battle vest ready to go because it is dark brown and my m1a mgs fit in it. There is enough room left for three days worth of e and e gear. I also carry a Pathfinder duluth pack which is dark brown as well. I
The 2 Military Canteens with cup you carry.
Are the cups metal?
In the bottom of the canteen cover,
I carry some powder soup and a tea bag or two.
I did not know you could get so much in a M-16 mag pouch.
This may have been covered already, but I noticed not little Binocular/Monocular, those can come in pretty handy in just about ANY environment, and there are many that have a pouch that is compatible with the MOLLE system.
Question, What version of the LBE is the one that runs under the arms?
For those looking for the photographer styled vests for use, overstock.com usually has some available at reasonable prices.
I've seen something similar to this on ThinkGeek.com (http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/c616/). Though ThinkGeek's Gadget Holsters won't carry as much as this, I think they'd be good for Every Day Carry.
As for a weapon. What are you plan in on doing? Surviving or protecting from other people? In a survival situation I would suggest a tear down style .22. Yes it’s a little bigger then the 9mm but you can last alot longer and make farther shots. That’s my feeling on it.
I got one of these things on ebay ( its cheaper ) , glad I did !!!
I wear it in addition to my hunting pack . Has 3 magazine pouches lower Right , misc pouch Upper right , Good size GP pouch lower left , and another misc pouch upper left . upper right is perfect for my plug chewing tobacco lol . Hold enough to outfit for a day trip as well . Prefer the pack for longer than that .
I had to look again to see that some provision for fire was included… I see you include a Zippo so you have that covered, however I just want to add that I also carry a 9-volt battery and a few pieces of steel wool. Talk about an immediate fire starter…this is compact enough and a great back up if the flint gets wet on the Zippo or fuel runs out. I do recommend a piece of duct tape over the posts of the battery to prevent any contact with metal items in your pack. The bonus to having the battery is the potential for added improvisation.
Instead of having the LBV/H-harness setup I would suggest going to just a molle padded belt system with suspenders to hold it up. You can attach the M-4 Mag pouches, your favorite handgun holster and all the utility pouches you may need. Here is a link to see what I mean…
http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/railcop…
You can set it up anyway you want and you wont have to look like a member of some defunct, backwoods, militia.
I am wondering about using some short of web gear as my G.H.B any thoughts on this?
Whats up guys
After setting up many different rigs this is the set up that i have now and it works well . All [tactical tailor gear] some of the best gear that i have found. I have the MAV 1 Piece chest rig loaded out with a Enhanced Admin Pouch in the center [multi tool,blastmatch,bic,compass,maps,penlight,extra batteries, paracord,knife sharpener,SaberCut Saw]. And four 5.56 Single Mag Pouchs double stacked two on each side of the admin pouch and on the out side of those on each side i have two canteens and a cup, and on the out side of those i have two small Utility Pouchs head light in one and a small pair of binoculars in the other . And for my BOB i use T.T. Modular Operator Pack 2,034 cu. in Along with two of there Medic Pouchs mounted one on each side, a lot of room in these pouchs and they are compartmentalized. I also wear a Duty Belt with my pistol and a couple extra mags and a ESEE-6″ knife with the the survival sheath.With this set up i can dump the pack and run an gun and still have all the main survival tools
on my person.
Honestly I like the LBV's and H harnesses. They are a great alternative to maintain all essential gear. Its much easier to take something like that out hunting or hiking or riding a moutain bike to get yourself aclimated to the weight and such. I personally ride 14-20 miles 3-4x a week with my bug out bag with added weight for training purposes. I want to make sure that i am physically capable of handling more weight than what i will need with me if and when i would need to bug out. This is a great way to keep all that gear where you want it and organized and have better manueverability. Plus leaves room in a good pack. basically everything that Chuck said he has i have in my bug out bag less some other choice items. Now using that setup i could add a sleeping roll to the mix and have more room in my bag for other stuff like ammo. Can You add some pictures of what yours looks like done up Chuck?
Cammelbacks are always a plus with this set up. When we were in Iraq, we would shove ice in ours and then top it off with water and the condensation would keep out backs cool while we were out in the heat. We did the same thing with them in Afghanistan with Hot water. we used hot water cause the winters out there are horrible. Using gear that intermixes and is utilized together helps a lot.
lol thats where the funs at though, the military gear lol. But i do agree, some things you want to be more low key with. Where did you get that Kelty elk horn fanny pack at?
2 Things that would let you have a ton of more room is dump pouches and SAW pouches.
5 bic lighters in a ziplock bag
Gentlemen lighters fail in cold weather.
Ebay is a great place to look as well, some stuff is over priced, but you can find awesome deals, that's where i got my rig. I also agree that Cheaper Than Dirt is a great place to find items that may be useful, and downright necessary. With regards to the LBV issue, I have one for me, and for my wife. Mine is a simple chest rig, meant to carry the things that a chest rig carried when I was in the Marines. A simple ALICE setup for my wife, with a plethora of pouches for food, and other items as may be needed. I also have two packs one for each of us. my thoughts are, if the situation is bad enough for me to have a need to carry something bigger than a pistol to protect my family, than more ammo, readily available is best. I view a situation where bugging out would be necessary, as one where civil order has collapsed, and the only law is the one made on the spot. This isn't to say that the situation could not return to normal very rapidly, but being ready for a long, nasty situation, and having it end very quickly is better than being prepared for a short event, and having it become long and nasty. just a thought.
I need to update my posting. Since I aquired the Molle vest and field tested it a couple times, I have modified it's usage. The vest has an adjustable padded internal waist belt of sorts. It is now a utility belt complete with very simple H-style 1 inch strap "suspenders". (bought off Ebay) The vest itself has been retained for "other" uses. This set up now allows me to use my pack and the belt together. I can carry two canteens, a rapid deployment bag, pistol holster, and a couple additional pouches on this rig without interfering with the comfort or position of my 3 day Molle pack. I guess this would be an updated LBE/ Alice rig. It works.
lighters fail in cold weather because the fuel needs to be warmed up. hold it in your warm hands or under your arm pit for a bit and they will work fine.
DRAGO'S SHOULDER ORGANIZERHAS A ENOUGH pockets to keep mission-critical equipment and gear for 5 days….and can be worn as a butt-pack….its 840 denier not a 1000…but can take a hell of a
load of abuse !!!
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